U.G. KRISHNAMURTI

UGKrishnamurti

CHAPTER 35

U.G. KRISHNAMURTI 

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U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:Question: A  lot  of  things  you  have  said  sound  like  stuff  I  have  read  by  U.G. Krishnamurti…. Answer: I’ve read a lot of things from U.G. – no relationship  to J. Krishnamurti  – that I like, too. There are other things I’ve read where he seems to contradict himself a lot, things I disagree with, or maybe things I don’t totally understand. But here’s a sample from this “anti-guru” of what I like…. “People call me an ‘enlightened man’ – I detest that term – they can’t find any other  word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no  such  thing  as  enlightenment  at  all.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: I  say  that  because  all  my  life  I’ve  searched  and  wanted  to  be  an  enlightened  man,  and  I  discovered  that  there  is  no  such  thing  as  enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or  not  doesn’t  arise. I  don’t  give  a hoot  for  a sixth-century-BC Buddha,  let  alone  all  the  other  claimants  we  have  in  our  midst.  They  are  a  bunch  of  exploiters,  thriving  on  the  gullibility of the people.” “The holy men are all phonies – they are telling me only what is there in the books.  That I can read – ‘Do the same again and again’ – that I don’t want. Experiences I don’t  want. They are trying to share an experience with me. I’m not interested in experience.  As far as experience goes, for me there is no difference between the religious experience  and the sex experience or any other experience; the religious experience is like any other  experience.  I  am  not  interested  in  experiencing  Brahman;  I  am  not  interested  in  experiencing reality; I am not interested in experiencing truth. They might help others;  but they cannot help me. I’m not interested in doing more of the same; what I have done  is enough.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:” “I  had  arrived  at  a  point  where  I  said  to  myself  ‘Buddha  deluded  himself  and  deluded  others.  All  those  teachers  and  saviors  of  mankind  were  damned  fools  –  they  fooled themselves – so I’m not interested in this kind of thing anymore,’ so it went out of  my system completely.” “You hope that you will be able to resolve the problem of desire through thinking,  because of that model of a saint who you think has controlled or eliminated desire. If that  man has no desire as you imagine, he is a corpse. Don’t believe that man at all! Such a  man  builds  some  organization,  and  lives  in  luxury,  which  you  pay  for.  You  are  maintaining  him. He is doing  it for his livelihood.  There is always a fool  in the  world  who falls for him.” * * “They  are  all  liars,  fops,  fakes  and  cheaters  in  the  world,  who  claim  they  have  searched for and told the truth! Alright, you want to find out for yourself what this truth  is.  Can  you  find  out?  Can  you  capture  the  truth  and  hold  it  and  say  ‘This  is  truth?’  Whether you accept or reject, it’s the same: it depends on your personal prejudices and  predilectioU.G. KRISHNAMURTI:ns. So if you want to discover the truth for yourself, whatever it is, you are not  in a position to either accept or reject. You assume that there is such a thing as truth, you  assume that there is such a thing as reality (ultimate or otherwise) – it is that assumption  that is creating the problem, the suffering, for you. Look here, I want to experience God,  truth,  reality  or  what  you  will,  so  I  must  understand  the  nature  of  the  experiencing  structure inside of me before I deal with all that. I must look at the instrument I am using.  You  are  trying  to  capture  something  that  cannot  be  captured  in  terms  of  your  experiencing structure, so this experiencing structure must not be there in order that the  other  thing  may  come  in.  What  that  is,  you  will  never  know.  You  will  never  know  the  truth,  because  it’s  a  movement.  It’s  a  movement!  You  cannot  capture  it,  you  cannot  contain  it,  you  cannot  express  it.  It’s  not  a  logically  ascertained  premise  that  we  are  interested  in.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:  So,  it  has  to  be  your  discovery.  What  good  is  my  experience?  We  have  thousands  and  thousands  of  experiences  recorded  –  they  haven’t  helped  you.  It’s  the  hope that keeps you going – ‘If I follow this for another ten years, fifteen years, maybe  one of these days I will….’ because hope is the structure.” “I  discovered  for myself  and  by  myself  that  there  is  no  self  to  realize  – that’s the  realization  I  am  talking  about.  It  comes  as  a  shattering  blow.  It  hits  you  like  a  thunderbolt. You have invested everything in one basket, self-realization, and, in the end,  suddenly you discover that there is no self to discover, no self to realize – and you say to  yourself ‘What the hell have I been doing all my life?!’ That blasts you.” “Nothing.  That’s  the  discovery.  So-called  self-realization  is  the  discovery  for  yourself  and by yourself  that there  is no self to  discover. That will  be a very  shocking  thing – ‘Why the hell have I wasted all my life?’ It’s a shocking thing because it’s going  to destroy every nerve, every cell, even the cells in the marrow of your bones. I tell you,  it’s  not  going  to  be  an  easy  thing,  it’s  not  going  to  be  handed  over  to  you  on  a  gold  platter.  You  have  to  become  completely  disillusioned,  then  the  truth  begins  to  express  itself in its own way. I have discovered that it is useless to try to discover the truth. The  search  for  truth  is,  I  have  discovered,  absurd,  because  it’s  a  thing  which  you  cannot  capture, contain, or give expression to.” * * “You see, my difficulty with the people who come to see me is this: they don’t seem  to  be  able  to  understand  the  way  I  am  functioning,  and  I  don’t  seem  to  be  able  to  understand the way they are functioning. How can we carry on a dialogue? Both of us  have to stop. How can there be a dialogue between us both?” “I am not trying to sell anything here. It is impossible for you to simulate this. This  is a thing that has happened outside the field, the area, in which I expected, dreamed and  wanted change, so I don’t call this a ‘change’. I really don’t know what has happened to  me. What I am telling you is the way I am functioning. There seems to be some difference  between the way you are functioning and the way I am functioning, but basically there  can’t  be  any difference.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: How can there be any difference  between  you and me? There  can’t be; but from the way we are trying to express ourselves, there seems to be. I have  the feeling that there is some difference, and what that difference is is all that I am trying  to understand. So, this is the way I am functioning.” “Put it simply. U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:I can’t follow a very complex structure – I have that difficulty, you  see.  Probably  I’m  a  low-grade  moron  or  something,  I  don’t  know  –  I  can’t  follow  conceptual thinking. You can put it in very simple words. What exactly is the question?  Because  the  answer  is  there;  I  don’t  have  to  give  the  answer.  What  I  usually  do  is  restructure the question, rephrase it in such a way that the question appears senseless to  you.” “If  somebody  asks  me  a  question  suddenly,  I  try  to  answer,  emphasizing  and  pointing out that there is no answer to that question. So, I merely rephrase, restructure  and  throw  the  same  question  back  at  you.  It’s  not  game  playing,  because  I’m  not  interested  in  winning  you  over  to  my  point  of  view.  It’s  not  a  question  of  offering  opinions – of course I do have my opinions on everything from disease to divinity,  but  they’re as worthless as anybody else’s.” “It is the questioner that  creates the answer; and the questioner comes into being  from the  answer, otherwise there is no questioner. I am not trying to play with words.  You know the answer, and you want a confirmation from me, or you want some kind of  light to be thrown on your problem, or you’re curious – if for any of these reasons you  want to carry on a dialogue with me, you are just wasting your time; you’ll have to go to  a  scholar,  a  pundit,  a  learned  man  –  they  can  throw  a  lot  of  light  on  such  questions.  That’s all that I am interested in this kind of a dialogue: to help you to formulate your  own question. Try and formulate a question which you can call your own.” * * “Your natural state has no relationship whatsoever with the religious states of bliss,  beatitude and ecstasy; they lie within the field of experience. Those who have led man on  his  search  for  religiousness  throughout  the  centuries  have  perhaps  experienced  those  religious states. So can you. They are thought-induced states of being, and as they come,  so do they go. Krishna Consciousness, Buddha Consciousness, Christ Consciousness, or  what have you, are all trips in the wrong direction: they are all within the field of time.  The timeless can never be experienced, can never be grasped, contained, much less given  expression to, by any man. That beaten track will lead you nowhere. There is no oasis  situated yonder; you are stuck with the mirage.” “You  see,  people  usually  imagine  that  so-called  enlightenment,  self-realization,  God-realization or what you will (I don’t like to use these words) is something ecstatic, U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: that you will be permanently happy, in a blissful state all the time – these are the images  they have of those people…. There’s no relationship at all between the image you have of  that, and what actually is the situation…. That’s why I very often tell people ‘If I could  give  you some glimpse  of  what this is all  about,  you wouldn’t  touch  this  with  a barge  pole, a ten foot pole.’ You would run away from this because this is not what you want.  What you want does not exist, you see.” “We don’t want to be free from fear. All that we want to do is to play games with it  and talk about freeing ourselves from fear.” “You see, the search takes you away from yourself – it is in the opposite direction –  it has absolutely no relation.” “The search is always in the wrong direction, so all that you consider very profound,  all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: You may not like  the  word  ‘contamination’,  but  all  that  you  consider  sacred,  holy  and  profound  is  a  contamination.” “Understanding is a state of being where the question isn’t there any more; there is  nothing there that says ‘now I understand!’ – that’s the basic difficulty between us. U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:By  understanding what I am saying, you are not going to get anywhere.” “This  consciousness  which  is  functioning  in  me,  in  you,  in  the  garden  slug  and  earthworm outside, is the same. In me it has no frontiers; in you there are frontiers – you  are  enclosed  in  that.  Probably  this  unlimited  consciousness  pushes  you,  I  don’t  know.  Not me; I have nothing to do with it. It is like the water finding its own level, that’s all –  that is its nature. That is what is happening in you: life is trying to destroy the enclosing  thing, that dead structure of thought and experience, which is not of its nature. It’s trying  to come out, to break open. You don’t want that. As soon as you see some cracks there,  you bring some plaster and fill  them in and block  it again. It doesn’t have to be a so- called self-realized man or spiritual man or God-realized man that pushes you; anything,  that leaf there, teaches you just the same if only you let it do what it can.” * * “We have very strange ideas in the religious field – torture this body, sleep on nails,  control,  deny things  – all kinds  of funny  things. What  for? Why  deny  certain  things? U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:I  don’t know. What is the difference between a man going to a bar for a glass of beer, and  a  man  going  to  a  temple  and  repeating  the  name  of  Rama?  I  don’t  see  any  basic  difference….  I am not against escapes, but whether you escape through this avenue or  that avenue, an escape is an escape. You are escaping from yourself…. What you do or  do not do does not matter at all. Your practice of holiness, your practice of virtue – that  is socially valuable for the society, but that has nothing to do with this.” “By conserving sex energy, you are not going to improve yourself in any way.U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: It is  too  silly  and  too  absurd.  Why  have  they  laid  so  much  stress  on  that?  Abstinence,  continence, celibacy, is not going to help to put you in this state, in this situation.” “You don’t know what is good; you know only what is good for you. That’s all you  are interested in, that’s a fact. Everything centers around that. All your art and reason  centers around that. I am not being cynical. That’s a fact. Nothing wrong with it. I’m not  saying  anything  against  it.  The  situations  change,  but  it  is  that  which  is  guiding  you  through all situations. I’m not saying it is wrong you see. If it is not so, something must  be wrong with you. As long as you are operating in the field of what they call the ‘pair of  opposites’, good and bad, you will always be choosy, in every situation, that is all – you  cannot help doing that.” “A  ‘moral  man’  is  a  ‘chicken’.  A  ‘moral  man’  is  a  frightened  man,  a  chicken- hearted man – that is why he practices morality and sits in judgment over others. And his  righteous indignation! A moral man (if there is one) will never, never talk of morality or  sit in judgment on the morals of others. Never!” “Questioning  my actions before and after  is over for me. The moral question  – ‘I  should have acted this way; I should not have acted that way. I should not have said this’  – none of that is there for me. I have no regrets, no apologies; whatever I am doing is  automatic. In a given situation I am not capable of acting in any other way. I don’t have  to  rationalize,  think  logically  –  nothing  –  that  is  the  one  and  only  action  in  that  particular situation.” * * “You are asking me ‘Has anything any purpose?’ Look here, a lot of meanings and  purposes have been given to you. Why are you still looking for the meaning of life, U.G. KRISHNAMURTI:the  purpose of  life?  Everybody  has  talked  of  the  meaning  of  life  and  the  purpose  of  life  –  everybody. Answers have been given by the saviours, saints and sages of mankind – you  have thousands of them in India – and yet today you are still asking the same question,  ‘Has life  any  purpose  or  meaning?’ U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: Either  you  are  not  satisfied  or  you are  not  really  interested in finding out for yourself. I submit that you are not really interested, because  it’s  a frightening  thing.  It’s a very frightening  thing.  Is there  any  such  thing  as truth? U.G. KRISHNAMURTI: Have you ever asked that question for yourself? Has anybody told the truth?” “In  a way,  the  whole  of  life  is like  a great  big  dream.  I am  looking  at  you,  but I  really  don’t  know  anything  about  you  –  this  is  a  dream,  a  dream  world  –  there  is  no  reality to it at all. When the experiencing structure is not manipulating consciousness (or  whatever  you  want  to  call  it),  then  the  whole  of  life  is  a  great  big  dream,  from  the  experiential point of view – not from this point of view here; but from your point of view.  You  see,  you  give  reality  to  things  –  not  only  to  objects,  but  also  to  feelings  and  experiences  –  and  think  that  they  are real.  When  you  don’t  translate  them  in terms of  your accumulated knowledge, they are not things; you really don’t know what they are.” “Courage is to brush aside everything that man has experienced and felt before you.  You  are  the  only  one,  greater  than  all  those  things.  Everything  is  finished,  the  whole  tradition is finished, however sacred and holy it may be – then only can you be yourself –  that is individuality. For the first time you become an individual. As long as you depend  upon somebody, some authority, you are not an individual. Individual uniqueness cannot  express itself as long as there is dependence.” “My life  story goes up to a point,  and then it  stops – there is no more biography  after that. Desirelessness, non-greed, non-anger – those things have no meaning to me;  they are false, and they are not only false, they are falsifying me. I’m finished with the  whole business.” * * I  said  at  the  beginning  of  this  chapter  “there  are  other  things  I’ve  read  where  he seems to contradict himself a lot, things I disagree with, or maybe  things I don’t totally understand.” Apparently U.G. agrees…. “I am always negating what I am saying. I make a statement, but that statement is  not expressing all that is being said, so I negate it. You say I am contradicting myself. I  am not contradictory at all. I negate the first statement, the second statement, and all the  other statements – that is why sometimes it sounds very contradictory. I am negating it  all the time, not with the idea of arriving at any point; just negating. There is no purpose  in my talking.”1

FOOTNOTES 1. The Essential UG – “My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.” – Back to reading

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